torque converter slip actual vs desired

I would be surprised if this is your issue at 81,000 miles. Off.).) Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. (author diagram). That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! A manufacturer's torque-converter rating is generally expressed as an rpm range. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. The iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec-hb-login-xx cookie, which helps to protect the site against "brute force" hacking attempts; that cookie normally expires in about one hour. Most street torque converters tend to operate in the 3 to 5 percent slippage range, but this can go as high as 8 percent. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:24 pm, Post Whether it will add to my working knowledge is debatable, but my brain will benefit from the workout. *. About Us - This sounds really great, and it is. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. (For this cookie, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) Comments may be moderated. There may be more than one of these cookies, particularly if you access several password-protected posts with different passwords. Twice last week, when I came up to a stop light, the engine bogged down to 400rpm then recovered back to normal idle. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. This is not a huge factor in the overall lower-e.t. ), These cookies were previously used by the Google Analytics service to collect information about visitors and their use of the Ate Up With Motor website. I was towing my 5th wheel and the temp went up to 285. These cookies are necessary for the site's administrative users (who wouldn't even be able to log in without them), but if you are not an administrative user, these cookies aren't normally placed on your device at all unless you somehow access the login area, which is off-limits to non-administrators. It will read really high numbers until the converter is locked. For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC.). Lockup clutches were used in some nonautomotive torque converters before World War II, but the first regular-production automotive application was the 1949 Packard Ultramatic Drive, which established a model for subsequent transmission designs. (Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. To learn more about what information the YouTube platform and other Google services may collect through and/or in connection with embedded video players and how Google may use that information, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page and the Google Privacy Policy. Embedded video players for content hosted on the YouTube video platform (which is owned by Google LLC) may set these third-party cookies and/or use similar technologies to store data in your browser (or other user agent) for purposes such as (without limitation) managing video settings (e.g., tailoring the playback to your connection speed), storing video preferences, providing certain functionality (e.g., allowing you to pause a video at a particular point), showing you advertisements, associating your video viewing and other activity with your Google account (if any), ensuring proper functioning of the service, preventing abuse, and/or compiling user analytics data. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. what is the protocol using AE to diagnosis torque slip. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? The payment button in the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box (and similar payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the administrative dashboard, which is not normally accessible except to logged-in administrative users) contains embedded content served by PayPal services. I did the trans relearn today with the Spartan 275 tune. 2011 Flex Limited AWD EcoBoost - Mediterranean Blue Metallic/Silver Roof. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. I don't think they had this in 2011 however. 4. To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. I am however, now chasing some unusual engine noises which are a different issue entirely. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. This is a red flag that lets you know you may need an expert to repair it for you. The cookies are not set at all unless you select that option when submitting a comment. Last fall, the external filter disintegrated and clogged up the cooler. i take it your a writer and not a trans guy ,but maybe someone could answer the question. All site content Copyright 2007-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); FordFlex.net FordFlex.net is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company. The good news is, if it is just your torque converter that is having issues since it's a self-contained unit, you may not need to replace or rebuild your whole transmission. I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. Performance & security by Cloudflare. Remember, a torque converter is a coupler between the engine and transmission. Your IP: The impellers spun by the engine's crankshaft. In the diagram above, the yellow arrow again illustrates the flow of power, this time in third (top) gear. Many of the other listed cookies are associated with the Google Analytics service, the Google AdSense advertising service, and/or other Google advertising and measurement products, which are subject to the Google Privacy Policy; see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site, and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of the Google Business Data Responsibility site (which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products) for more information. Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. Thanks for this. but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. It is not common for the knock sensors to fail, especially at such a low mileage. Torque converters can be serviced or replaced as a single unit. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. if someone would have put in a used ecu ,fron a electric controlled aod. In order to get a realistic value, use: Your finish line MPH (from ET slip) Your finish line RPM. This slippage is part of what determines the stall speed of the converter. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). Your torque converter is full of fluid, and its jobis to act as a hydraulic pump and acts as a coupling between the engine and the transmission. abs, do you have any recommendations on how to troubleshoot a failing torque converter using ForScan? The PYPF cookie normally expires in approximately four weeks, the 01A1 cookie in approximately one year. Your Transmission Gear Ratio at Finish Line. Terms of Service - Ultramatics lockup clutch was a hydraulically operated wet clutch located within the torque converter housing, between the engine flywheel and the converter turbine. In my limited experience, a failing converter in this transmission will start to throw off a lot of black carbon and cause the fluid to rapidly darken. This creates the greatest speed difference between the turbine and the impeller and therefore the maximum torque multiplication. The second thing to look for is a lot of slippage between Desired and Actual readings for the TCC in Forscan. Theglobal torque converter marketcontinues to grow and expand at a CAGR of 4.54%, which is projected until 2021. mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! This will cause damage to both the transmission and the converter. By logging into your account, you agree to our. of course it could be logging falsely No, that just means its not locking, or the pid isn't reading right. The first automatic transmissions employed what was called a fluid coupling to connect the crankshaft with the transmission. The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. Clutch material, bearing and bushing pieces, and a shiny metal flake appearance will be an indicator that things are coming apart inside. What to Do to Fix Overheating and Seal Damage. I found the cause of the P0325 and P0330 error codes. It's also important not to undersell converter weight as a contributing factor to maximizing acceleration. The torque converter clutch is always slipping somewhere between 5% to 95% when engaged, which depends on vehicle speed and engine load.. We discussed the information to monitor on the scan tool, there is an actual slip, desired slip, and TCC status. abs thank you for posting your experience here. For a drag-race car, the cost of this additional slippage is worth the price, but for a street car it creates other problems. A third drum (dark green) allows the overrunning clutchs outer race to be locked in place by the forward band, which is engaged in all forward gears. But once they are damaged, you will experience fluid leaks. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. Even though Dyno numbers are just a number, For reference my 2018 Gen3 made 400rwhp/390rwtq stock with 5k miles on a Dynojet,, It hit the speed limiter at 6700. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. Utimately, I installed a recycled transmission from a junk yard and a remanufactured torque converter from Ford. Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. ), These first-party cookies are used to manage user logins and certain other administrative functions of the WordPress content management system, e.g., post editing. Most street torque. However, the cookie may remain on your device for as long as the settings of your browser (or other user agent) permit. Contaminated transmission fluid can cause damage to your converter parts and your transmissions parts. In the Packard Ultramatic transmission, the input shaft drives the hub of the direct drive clutch and the input sun gear of the Ravigneaux gearset (all colored medium blue). I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. Opening the throttle further could delay engagement to a maximum of 56 mph (90 km/h). Like the contemporary Buick Dynaflow, Ultramatic was designed to operate most of the time in its direct drive top gear. In first and second gears, the converter turbine drove the front annulus (ring gear). I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm not familiar with your specific transmission. The usual strategy is to disengage the clutch at idle (or just off idle) and during acceleration and then then engage the clutch for cruising. 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If we have enabled multi-factor authentication (which requires an authentication code as well as a password to log into the administrative dashboard), the iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec_interstitial_browser cookie during the login process. Think of it as two fans facing eachother inside an enclosure. Just thought I would share with everyone some recent learnings I've had with my 2010 EB Flex. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. A tracking pixel, sometimes known as a web beacon, is a tiny image file that loads from a remote server; it's a type of embedded content (as is the button itself, which loads from the same domain). Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. All rights reserved. That should make you and your car happy. One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. For all the administrative and login cookies described here, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash while "UID" will be the administrative user's user ID number in this website's WordPress database. So, you can see how those would be preferred from a standpoint of cost and packaging! (author diagram). One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. With the torque slip PID on the DashDAQ. Hydraulic slippage also offers some advantages during acceleration: As with a plate clutch, a certain amount of slip makes for a much smoother takeoff. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post Each PayPal payment or donation button may also incorporate a tracking pixel called "pixel.gif" (which loads from paypalobjects.com). check out the. In first, the low band and one-way clutches held both sun gears, causing the ring gears to drive the planet carrier and output shaft at 43.3% of turbine speed (1 / 2.31). There are many different types oftorque converter problems. The turbine drives the front annulus through the input shaft (medium blue). If it does go let us know. The one-way stator clutch (fuchsia) allows the stator (light blue) to freewheel in the direction of engine rotation, but reverse rotation locks the stator against the fixed stator shaft (dark gray), providing torque multiplication under some conditions. It's when you have a damaged torque converter seal that fluid leaks out and causes the overheating and damage. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. Third, make sure that your engine is running right because a transmission chuggle can be caused by many things. By changing the angle of the impeller blades, the torque-converter manufacturer can create a converter that generates a given stall speed with a certain torque multiplication. (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. Not all the listed cookies and/or data items are necessarily set in all instances, and there may sometimes be others not listed above, particularly if you are logged into a Google account. The valve was pushed open or closed by opposing pressures generated by a throttle-controlled valve and a centrifugal governor driven by the output shaft. This is why lifting off the throttle in a car with a fluid coupling or torque converter can feel almost like shifting into neutral. by SirHandyMan Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm, Post Larger-diameter converters are usually more efficient and deliver less slippage, while smaller-diameter converters offer more stall speed and more slippage. Your IP: If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. Google, AdSense, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Unlike Ultramatic and many subsequent torque converter automatics, the converter of the DG series was completely inoperative in top gear, so obtaining any additional torque multiplication required a downshift to second gear. (Until late 1954, the transmissions planetary gearset always remain in direct drive unless the driver manually selected Low.) I would suggest starting with the transmission upper mount and also a transmission fluid drain and fill. by Silver Flex SEL. Over 10 RPM is real slip. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. This viscous connection is transmission fluid. A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. The DG series transmissions obtained their indirect ratios with a compound planetary gearset. If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. Almost no one thinks of it, but when you drive your automatic transmission car, you're master over your cars torque converter. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post Aaron is probably now the best informed person in the world regarding the history of automatic transmission development, I appreciate the compliment, but Im really not! So when the torque converter clutch engages there should be almost 0rpm difference between tc slip desired and tc slip act. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Locking the converter with a scan tool bypasses the tune and verifies everything mechanical is in order. The torque converter of the future will have a carefully tuned control strategy, which takes into account the torque demands of each vehicle. We were wrong. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. At idle and very low road speeds, slippage is desirable because it keeps the engine from stalling or lugging in gear. Your email address will not be published. scheme, but it does contribute. This is a remarkably broad, convoluted, and idiosyncratic field and theres a LOT I dont know. This and the GM automatic history are probably the most definitive descriptions of these technologies on the Internet, excepting pure design and engineering treatises. There are several ways to arrange such a clutch, but the common object is to create a mechanical connection between the engine and the transmission input shaft (which otherwise is driven by the fluid clutchs turbine(s)). Really bad shuddering under acceleration, etc. If governor pressure dropped below that threshold, the clutch would disengage. In this diagram, the yellow arrows show the power flow in second gear. The wahFontColor and wahBgColor cookies, which are set if you alter the site's color scheme, normally expire after about 14 days, but you can remove them immediately by clicking the "Restore Defaults" button on the sidebar. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. Think of a lock TC as the clutches in your tranny. For more information, please see our You've now repaired or replaced your torque converter if it exhibited any of the above common torque converter problems. Once your torque converter starts failing, you need to be knowledgeable about what torque converter problems will disable your car? Your email address will not be published. In this installment of Ate Up With Motor, we take a look at how GM, Ford, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker have approached this slippery problem from 1949 through the late eighties. When it comes to automatic-equipped street machines and drag-race cars, the torque converter is a welded-up magic box that few enthusiasts know much about. Archive - 7.3L Power Stroke - Aftermarket & Performance. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. This setting is stored in your browser (or other user agent) in the gdpr[consent_types] cookie described in "Privacy and Cookie Preferences" above, so if you delete that cookie or access the Ate Up With Motor website from a different device, browser, or user agent, you will need to adjust this setting again if you still wish to hide the box. Although torque converters are ideal launch devices for. The wp-donottrack_feed cookie, which controls a blog feed, was set by accessing the dashboard menu for the WP DoNotTrack plugin (which we do not currently use on this website); this cookie normally expires in about one year. The clutch plate itself, which was faced on both sides with cork, was splined at its hub to the transmission input shaft. For most hot street engines, converters in the 2,200 to 2,600-rpm range are considered streetable but will still require a very efficient trans cooler to keep them out of the heat zone. (author diagram). A spring-loaded plunger valve controlled oil flow to the lockup clutchs hydraulic cylinder. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, Re: Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.co 733.0.html. .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to Average Life Expectancy In Vietnam War, Articles T